I just had to post this quote. I know we’ve kinda moved away from quoting other people but see what you think:
“Jesus presented the rule of God, using images of food and drink and home as a roving banqueting hall by which God sought Israelites to be guests, then hosts. At this table they were offered reconciliation with God, a true home, and a spiritual and material abundance, as the basis for offering all these good things to each other, to others yet to come and even to enemies.”
I know it isn’t very commentable on, but I like it!! Jesus didn’t sit in a cosy little room saying “you can come to my party if you pass these tests”, he took his party to them. The great Messianic banquet was in town, but not as expected. Jesus took it to all the wrong people at all the wrong times. Whenever he ate or drank with people, entered another’s home or they entered his, he was celebrating with them the Day of the Lord in the Messianic Banquet that brings with it reconciliation, ‘home’, ‘life’. And we are now to be the co-hosts of the LORD’s banquet.
So ... it's Friday. In my other life that meant celebration of the end of the week. In honour of that I thought I would expose my secret escapism (ok not so secret):
www.shipoffools.com
Whether its "Gadgets for God" (my personal favourite) or the "Mystery worshipper" reports, you are sure to find a Friday afternoon laugh! Graham, that man of grace probably won't like "The biblical Curse generator" ("smite your enemy with the help of the hard men of the OT"), but to him I say: "May you go on a diet of crunchy, unsweetened locusts, O ye Amalekite dog!"
Found this somewhere on line....
Distinctives of the emerging church
Some of the distinctives and values you will find woven through this generation that affects the way we want to express church are:
1/ Building real church, this means being discipled, developed and used. Lots of people doing things for first time. Avoiding slick professionalism and taking lots of risks. Cultivating a culture of participation
2/ Based on community & belonging - an answer to the fragmentation of our societies and our families. Most of church life happens outside of the meetings in homes, pubs, sports clubs etc
3/ Non-hierarchical, humble leadership. Men & women leading together, alongside each other bringing out the best in each other.
4/ Justice and care for the poor is a strong heartbeat. We want to be active in campaigning and petitioning against injustices around the world. We are very keen to be ethical consumers and resist materialism
5/ Evangelism is not an activity, it's a way of life. We are the message- opening up the whole of our lives for others to join us. Therefore, the boundaries of church are blurred. Not "are you in or are you out" but "come along the journey with us". Church is open to all, inclusive and accessible
6/ Experimental & creative. Use of colour, art, multimedia. The message communicated through many mediums, not just through words
7/ A thirst for deeper spirituality. Learning from some of the ancient strands of the christian life. Talking about new monastic orders and discipleship vows.
8/ Breaking the dualism that plagues historic church - a fusing together of ordinary life and church so that we are more concerned with equipping and releasing the dispersed church than with maintaining meetings. Living with the premise that the whole of life is spiritual, we don't operate by compartmentalising our lives.
9/ Knowing that we're not there yet-an ability to keep evolving as we walk this journey.
Ok, I'm finding myself living in two worlds. A world of transition, of deconstruction and reconstruction and a world where church as we know it, is well and truly alive! I feel myself constantly slipping between the two paradigms. Holding two very different views of success in tension. I'm part of a movement of churches that was born out of church growth and in some unspoken way promotes success as being: big (in number)... multi-programmed... multi-serviced... and multi-media (please no more power point)... Its buzzwords are: Professionalism... Polished... and Slick... I don't know how long I can live in these two worlds?
A lot of my peers think I've lost the plot or that I'm just down right irresponsible. The first thing they ask you is "how many people have you got?" As if people were yours to possess in the first place. or "How many small groups do you have?" "Have you gone to Sunday's yet or are you still in the pre-church phase?" As if at some point in church planting your not a real church until you're meeting on Sundays. According to the success charts we've failed, we should of shut up shop years ago... Yesterday was our 3rd anniversary of church planting. The original church we planted in Daventry grew to three groups. In that time we've seen people become Christian’s, but only to walk away again. We've done Alpha courses, church services in pubs, we've done it cafe style, with starbucks coffee (yumm) and even candle lit... but still we haven't seen the success they all talked about. In fact we've grown down to just one small group! (Not exactly church growth)
As we enter our forth year and hand-over this little church in Daventry to new leaders and as we continue in our new adventure in Northampton. What is going to dictate success for us this time round? What new rules are we going to play by? When someone asks us that "how big is your church" question, what clever answer can I give them? How do I stop that inner need within me sometime, to be like everyone else in our movement and play up to this success role? So many questions!
This article saved me today. I was contemplating a depressing blog about how this whole church thing is far too much effort and we shoud, go and hide in a monastry somewhere, on a private journey to inner peace. This was a result of a key guy for me just not quite being able to see where i was coming from - even over a match with Man U winning - hope began to fade. And then I read this. Suddenly here was the vision for church being community and infecting community with the people living one unified life. What was most encouraging was the fact that it was in a totally different guise to how I am thinking - but there were some core values that where common. Maybe then the values are worth battling through for: a church having fun creating community, making disciples, blessing the nations. The heads go up and anything is possible (like Juventus in the last minute last night).
And then I remembered that the blokes from the church are going out for a curry tonight - the world is live-able again!!
Haloscan have disabled the posting of comments! Should be back up at some point today!?
"Server Work in progress
We're doing some work on the server and will have the site restored soon. Thanks for your patience.
Update We have found that the cause of the recent problems with the service were caused by a hardware failure in the database server. We are working to replace that server completely but in the meantime we have a backup loaded. No comments have been lost but we have temporarily disabled the posting of comments to the server until we have the database server replaced. Everything should be resolved and running by Tuesday at the latest. Sorry about the problems and thanks for your patience as we resolve this matter."
Postcards from Europe: Incarnational Mission in the Pop-Culture World. A Chat with Eddie Gibbs
The latest issue of Cutting Edge is out with some interesting stuff from Eddie Gibbs.
Church Planting
It’s interesting to see what church planting might look like in the emerging, younger generation. Gen-Xers don’t always connect with Boomers, but they love their grandparents! I see a real role for grandparents in mentoring. The young adult ministry at St. Thomas Crookes in Sheffield, England, is a good example. Many who are there at the service are from the dance culture. There are no seats, everybody sits on the floor, 80 percent are in their twenties. But there are chairs around the edge where 70 and 80-year olds are sitting. These grandparents have been part of this Anglican church from the start, and want to be part of things.
Church planters under 30 whom I’m meeting don’t seem interested in planting churches that will become mega churches. Rather, they want reproducible small churches—which, incidentally, matches what’s happening in the business world. Warren Bennis’ The Future of Leadership speaks of elephants and fleas. The elephants get all the attention, but the new ideas mostly come from fleas. [MORE]
PS. Comments are down till Tuesday!
The Articles section on the Central Vineyard website is now up and running - hope it is of some use!?
.Posted by: Central Vineyard | 2/17/2003 06:02:00 pm |
Could someone help me out here?
Have I come in at a bad time?
Mark (H) If the leaders are the problem, do you propose that we get rid of all leadership? I don't really care about what my title is, but I know that I'm to lead a group of people who want to follow Jesus. I thought that leadership was influence, that we all lead whenever we influence another human being. I've never sought to dominate others by my professionalism, in fact I wouldn't even call myself a professional. God's given me a vision and it's my duty to helpe others who want to be a part of this journey that we're on to get there. It's my privilege to serve people by leading them to maturity in Christ, (Col 1)to equip them for works of service (Eph 4), blah, blah, blah.
I don't want status, I don't want to be known, I want people to know Jesus. I want people to experience the rule and reign of God in their lives. And I'll do all that I can to serve them to be the people God has intended them to be. Not to us but to the Lord should the glory be given. Anyway I think the sheep are the problem!
The other day I was discussing my frustrations with church (too many meetings, no time for friends - and people love it!!??) and he responded - "well, what's your role then"! A good question! The thought that came to mind on the spur of the moment was the oft quoted difference between the Western and Eastern shepherds. I have found this thought returning often over the last few days:
Western shepherd: driving from the back, rod in hand ready to smack the butts of those sheep who don't go or do what he is wanting. He also has a sheep dog to snap at those who he can't quite reach. Communication is by whistling to the dog, an aloof other language the sheep can't understand
Eastern shepherd: Leads from the front. The sheep follow the shepherd "'cos they know his voice". They follow because they trust. The rod is used to help out of trouble rather than a sheep driving tool.
The temptation to drive the sheep to adestination is so tempting - and it reveals in me wrong motivaitons and goals - a security in how the church is going rather than how the chief shepherd thinks I am doing. That driving feels like churches I have been in.
"Follow me as I follow Christ" fits more the Eastern shepherd way?
The trinity - What is that about?? Oh I so wish that I could describe what God is like....or do I? It is so easy to want to capture God in our box, to be able to encapsulate him into a little word or saying. The doctrine of the trinity certainly prevents us form doing that. The trouble is we are trinitarian in doctrine but not in experience often. I am constantly amazed by the fulness of describing God as we draw in every aspect of how he is revealed in the Bible. By the Spirit we participate in the Son's communion with the Father. The Son has offered himself to bring us into the reality of life with God - but that is not just a past event, but by the Spirit we share in the Son's life and worship and intercession with the Father right now!!
The Spirit is the realtiy of God's presence on the earth now in us!! That's why, as the song goes - "fears are stilled and strivings cease". Striving, fear so much trademarks of our lives when we find ourselves outside the experiential reality of sharing in the Son's communion with the Father by the Spirit. A reality that we particpate in not create, worship and prayer that precedes our worship and prayer.
God help me to allow you to initiate and me to yield to your life and leading.
Well, the case is closed I need broadband!! So many thoughts to blog, but by the time I manage to get myself sorted behind computer all the energy is lost - surely broadband is the answer (I am not sure Maddy is convinced). Maybe it is as much the point that I have just started a job that i worked full-time last week. I have just realised that this is the first job for 18 months - what with bible college. To be honest the first few days were great!! Mainly because God's provision is fantastic, and life is about celebration!
On that note I think it is time that apologised publically ... to Graham. Not something I enjoy doing, but I find myself in the exact same situation he talked about back on Wed 15th Jan, to which I gave a fairly direct response! Now I find myself locked into a corner with respect to 'house church' kind of thinking. I am not sure if i have some kind of obsessive-compulsive disorder, but I keep finding myself talking myself round to only one way of doing church - small, authentic and reaching out from homes. My strong values keep leading me only one place. I am sure that I am not way out on the radical edge of said fanaticism, but i am certainly 'left of middle'. What is going on?
The crunch came a little today during my monthly trip to Derby - my sending church - to catch the gossip and talk about where we are at. To get the context, Community Church, Derby calls itself a "Purpose Driven Cell church" - and to be fair to them they have turned a church culture inside out. There is, as you would guess, a strong emphasis on growth. In response to the question: "Where do you see things going, Mark", I found myself responding "I don't want my church to be any bigger than it is" qualified by "I just want lots of them" (tongue in cheek). Just verbalising it has taken a weight off my mind, and they were very gracious and supportive. I know however that things are not yet fully formed in me. I hope God is in this somewhere 'cos otherwise I am in real trouble!! Maybe I am anyway!
I'm reading Robert Webber's new book "The Younger Evangelical" at the moment and come across the following on the subject of "Absolutes"
'Younger evangelicals are attracted to absolutes. But they don't want to arrive at absolutes through evidence or logic. They are, as Todd Flanders has pointed out, attracted to the kind of absolute that Pascal referred to in his Pensees. They want truth that is a matter of "heart as well as mind." Pascal remarked that "truth is so obscured nowadays and lies so well established that unless we love the truth we shall never recognize it." It is this approach to truth that is the path of postmoderns. The importance of truth is not so much that it is understood but that it is loved and lived.'
I was talking with my brother Rob the other day about objective and subjective truth. It seems in the modern world everything had to be objective. Subjective experience was always secondary or to the more fundamental, worthless. But it struck me (as I continued to talk about this with Graham) how modern Christian thinking is just as subject, particularly when we compare it to the pre-modern world of Christianity. We start to realise some of our absolutes, were not absolutes for our pre-modern brothers. Things like the Father, Son and Holy Spirit relationship, some church fathers just didn't believe it!
So what am I asking/saying? well, wherever we stand in our understanding of truth, are we really there because it was totally objective to be? and are we really willing to say that no level of subjectivity helped to put us there? In an earlier chapter of Webber's book he address' the subject of inerrancy (that every single word in the bible was divinely inspired) this was introduced through the development of the scientific method (part of the modern worldview). Question, Is the Bible the Inerrant word of God? If it is, do I know that in an objective way? or is it safe to say I know it subjectively? Is it just a mix of both? Going back to Webber, "...The importance of truth is not so much that it is understood (objective truth) but that it is loved and lived (subjective truth)!"
Maybe there is no such thing as objective truth? but then again maybe there is, but all we can do is reach for it in a subjective way, because we live this side of heaven? oh yeh, and we're not God!
Oh no I think I'm talking crap again............... arhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Found this via Andrew Jones' blog: The Four Spiritual Laws - The Flash Version.
That's it, all my pre-christian (it's better than non) friends must see this site - and then they can all pray the prayer at the end and get to go to heaven when they die......... It's so simple!
The (De)Central Vineyard
Ok, I don't know how all the details are going to work, but change is about to happen, big time... Our little network of churches is splitting up (sorry dividing, no multiplying, oh I don't know what the right word is anymore) As some of you know our small network of churches are quite geographically spread out, the one church (in Daventry) is 12 miles away from the other two in Northampton. Daventry is where we started planting over 3 years ago and it is my hometown. Over the next few months we're going work towards releasing the Daventry church to be an independent Vineyard. So what’s changed?
Well, firstly last year, when we started this there was times when we didn't think there would be a church left in Daventry. People were disappearing left, right and centre. (We went from 3 groups to 1 in the space of 18 months) But to our joy a core of people remained. That core has spent the last 8 months developing a fresh vision and desire to see God do some amazing things there.
Secondly, our thinking has changed. When things first kicked off in Northampton, we kind of thought Northanpton would act as the hub in term of us reaching out to the rest of the region. But over the last few months we’ve been more focused on becoming ‘decentralised’ than we have about being ‘centralised’. We still want to impact our region and we still want to see small missional communities scattered across it. Just how we get there I think has changed.
Thirdly, for me it’s about learning to let go. Daventry’s been my baby, my sacrifice, my dream, my time, my energy, my vision… it’s mine!!!! (I feel like Bilbo Baggins, when he asked to look at the ring for one last time) But the words of Job keep coming back to me time and time again. “The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away; may the name of the Lord be praised.” It’s all His, and that is all that matters. We’re just the weak vessels he chooses to use to do it with or not as it would seem!
+++ So people please pray for us as we continue our journey of decentralisation. Please pray for Rob & Ange as they'll be taking on a bulk of the leadership and also the rest of the church in Daventry, they've been through some hard stuff as a church family this last few months. Lastly please pray for Mark & Laura (who get married in the summer) and are planning on moving to Daventry to be part of the church. Pray that Mark finds the right Job and house by the time they're married. Also Larua is in her last year at bible college, please pray for her and the work load etc... +++
Seen this house on Hunter Street for £84,995, it's within the area we want to be in (see post from the other day)
See more details here!
As promised, my first question: I have been thinking a lot in the last few years about how much commitment God calls us to. Actually I'll rephrase that - I've felt called to go deeper with God and have been challenged with questions like: is this just for some, or for everyone who follows Jesus?
It was suggested to me many months back that there is a minimum level commitment and then there is more for those who want more. I'm not sure if that comment was more about "Church-commitment" than it was about "Jesus-commitment." The answer came in response to a question I had on spiritual disciplines and the point of the response was that Jesus doesn't say "you have to have me AND SD's", "you just need me" (which I suppose is similar to the message that Mumf gave at last years' vineyard leaders conf. on Ephesians - and the whole circumcision thing - i.e. that they were saying "you need Jesus AND to be circumcised" and Paul is saying "You need Jesus.")
Now I'm reminded of a statement that Carl M made about Jesus being the pearl: "If you've really seen the pearl, you'll understand why you'd sacrifice everything to get it." (which Willard also addresses in his latest book Renovation of the Heart) Carl also went on to say that if you can't understand this then "you probably haven't seen the pearl." Which makes me ask - are we surrounded by "Christians" who, while 'committed' to a set of beliefs haven't actually found the pearl?
The next stage in my thinking is that if, when you've seen the pearl you will sacrifice everything to get it, why are we so half arsed so often in our approach to issues like being disciplined? I'm aware that this issue skirts the fine line between bounded and centred set models (if applied to whole communities.) I've heard some describe Church of the Saviour as having a high value on commitment and yet they excell at being a missional community. How do we draw the line between being inclusive and being a people who are called out, who are actually different and therefore change their locality?
I suppose one answer is that we are saved by grace, not by works - but that out of that grace we're inspired to participate in God's Kingdom, therefore works flow from grace...
I hope that this has come out coherently enough. I'd love some input on this one and ideas on how you feel this affects how we do, or be, church.
Hi guys, thanks for inviting me to join you in your dialogue. As you may have guessed I'm part of the Cardiff Vineyard. We've been working through a lot of stuff recently which seems to relate to the discussions you're all having on this blog - what's church, what's community, etc etc. I don't know about you but it seems that every revelation brings with it new questions. It's all very overwhelming. Perhaps I'll ask some of them in my next blog!
.Posted by: Jonathan | 2/07/2003 06:45:00 pm |
Someone was talking about Leadership styles the other day. Well here's a FREE Myers-Briggs personality/temperament type thing. Let me know what you come out as!!!
.Posted by: Central Vineyard | 2/06/2003 11:41:00 pm |
We had a good time together tonight, a few people from our little community were away, so we went for 'fish and chips'. We then decided to walk and pray around the area. God really filled me with a real excitement for this little part of Northampton (The Mounts). We also prayed about moving there, finding the right jobs and so on...
I was reminded about something Todd Hunter said about us no longer being parish church parishioners, but missionaries in the community and that church planting in these small missional communities, might mean all we can handle is a handful of streets. So for the next few years here's our stomping ground, from Hervey Street to Colwyn Road.
Everyone go and see: http://www.webdesignlab.co.uk/niksthings/masking.html
.Posted by: Central Vineyard | 2/06/2003 01:48:00 pm |
I want to return to a discussion Graham started a while back - the issue of 'the home' today. Certainly there are many issues for our homes that are different from First Century and even different from N America.
It seems to me that the home is the place where you are really yourself. You come home and you veg, you flop, you let it all hang out. It is the place where you take you mask off that you have been wearing for the world and you just BE. For many people they try wearing a mask at home, but in the end the intensity of relationships mean that they can't manage it for long - that is why wife beaters, child abusers, family break-ups can all happen even when people seem the nicest people in the world. The result is that the home is the place of greatest vulnerability. To invite someone to your home is to invite them into your life, to see you as you really are. As Christians that is why it is such an important place to reach out from and include others in. BUT (and its a big one!!) the consequence is that many people 'out there' are extremely nervous about going to someone's home and certainly about letting others into theirs. In my experience (let me know some other experiences) people feel more comfortable meeting you in a neutral place than at home. The home is a barrier to cross. I think that the Englishman's home is definitely still his castle - a place of self-protection and separation. Clearly all that has implications on the way we do church. Maybe that is why it is thought that House Churches are more suited to the next generation - built on open and honest relationships [or is that idealism] and that few have homes and families??
Would anyone disagree with my exegesis of the 21st Century Western Home?
I have been wanting to respond to Steve’s copied blog below entitled “Abortion, Gambling and Cloning” for while. It won’t all fit into a ‘comment’ so here it is.
Although can understand where this blog is coming from, the direction that it ends up taking, it seems to me, is extremely worrying. I understand that political involvement by the church, especially in N America has mainly been around protest and trying to prevent things happening. This creates an image of trying to enforce Christian values on a post-Christian world. Making the church look judgmental and Scrooge-like. As the next generation rise up with a better understanding the issues of pluralism, no longer thinking that the church has a right to have a voice in national politics as many still expect and lament the loss of, they look to a radical new engagement with the world. However I think that the position presented could lead to a radical disengagement.
I believe that we too easily slip into the modern/Enlightenment Public-private divide. I.e. The gospel is about changing the beliefs of individuals and not allow that to start to influence the public arena. I am absolutely convinced that this thinking affects us more than we know. It certainly affects how we interpret Jesus. We seem to think that Jesus avoided talking about national topics and started to take everything to the 'heart', and bringing timeless truths. The Temple we must remember was not just the religious centre of Israel but the commercial and political centre. Hence Jesus was constantly challenging the heart of Jewish political life. His message was partly about how Israel should respond to the invading forces. This issue was political, religious, commercial, eschatological all rolled into one. I don't think that you can take Jesus' comments about paying taxes to Caesar without understand what was going on - trying to catch him out as to his political agenda. If Jesus wasn't being political then why did the authorities have him killed? The same really could be said for Paul, who constantly talked about the true Lord, over against Caesar, and yet still encouraged submission. What I am saying is that in the first century the world did not divide so nicely - 1 Corinthians at the very least lets us know about that (the idol temple issues that were integral to all aspects of 1st Century life). "Let's not get involved in politics and just concentrate on issues of faith" was just not an option in a world that mingled the two. The removal of that dualism, I think, is crucial to a new Gospel and a new Christianity for a Postmodern world.
The question that must be asked is how then should we engage with the world and not retreat into a privatised world of faith. It is clear that the days of shouting moralisms from behind the established church or demonstration placards has gone - and praise god for that! I believe that the engagement must now come not about what the church is telling others not to do, but about what the church is doing to help people. That, more and more these days is 'political'. Steve Chalke is a shining example. He gets a voice with the prime minister, not because he is moaning the loudest, but because he has earned it by serving poeple and demonstrating that the gospel works - the result is that people want to know what you have to say, in the political realm. The message then is not a defense of ‘Christian Values’, for example, but a demonstration that supporting the nuclear is a good way to go for the health of the nation individually and corporately. That makes the voice not defensive and therefore aggressive at times, but genuine and caring. Being involved in politics is, I think, an essential part and integral with "Love your neighbour" in the democratic Western world.
As Newbiggin says: "The church is to be a sign, instrument and foretaste of the sovereignty of the one true living God over all nature, all nations and all human lives”. That is not just about ‘getting people saved’ but making a difference in the world and allowing people to taste a little of what the Kingdom is like.
Another late night blog (the other one didn't work)
